I wanted to start by checking in with you. It was obviously a very up-and-down game for you. How did it feel getting to watch the finale back in particular tonight?I mean, tonight’s obviously been hit or miss. But overall, I’ve been so grateful for the experience. And I feel great about the edit. I got the narration opportunities, the reception of people watching. So yes, so glad it worked out, and only fitting that it ended the way that it did.(Laughs.) Well, let’s get into how it ended. Knowing your game and perception, what did you rate your chances going into the final Tribal Council? And how much did they change by the time the votes were cast?I mean, I think I did pretty well at final Tribal, all things considered. I hate the term “Survivor resume,” but I think I had just a lot fewer boxes checked than Cass and Gabler did. I had a lot less to work with. But I think I presented it in the best possible way I could. So I think I put up a good fight. But I knew I was the long shot. But the thing is, I thought I was going to lose to Cassidy in a landslide. I did not anticipate this outcome.When you hear Gabler’s answers to the jury, are you like, “Where did this guy come from?” Or was this something you saw all along and just didn’t expect would come out?The former for sure. In retrospect, I was very impressed. But in the moment, it was more of an, “Oh [expletive]” realization. He was “AlliGabler,” intentionally laying low. He was intentionally kind of acting a little goofy. He was really trying to minimize his threat level and keep his hand in a lot of different pies. And he played a great game! I’m very much in the camp that every winner of Survivor deserves to win their season. So please, I hope no one twists my words and thinks he’s not undeserving. But my perception was that he was just kind of vibing and just being Gabler. But when he was getting the jury cracking up so much, and he was kind of revealing more and more, I realized that the tides were turning for sure.Let’s talk about some of your relationships. Because you do end up spending the most amount of time with Gabler. And while you’re working together at the end, it’s clear you butted heads at the beginning. How did that rocky road smooth out?Yeah, my ride on the Gabler Galleon was a bumpy one for sure. I figured out I’ve spent over 600 hours with Mike Gabler. Besides his wife and kids and his co-workers I’m probably up there. And they were consecutive! We only got separated at rewards. I love Gabler. He’s an excellent human being. And he and I worked together; I wish they had showed it more. But we had this dynamic where obviously I was getting frustrated with him, and certain things he did really pissed me off. But there were moments to where he was feeling down, or he was missing his family, and I was able to help steady him out there. He and I have had a lot of conversations postgame, but I think we made a very unlikely couple and duo. And it ended up working! We got all the way to the end. But it worked out better for him. How about Cassidy? We see you talk to her to drive a wedge between her and Karla last episode, and you took her on the steak dinner reward. Where did that relationship come from?Yeah, that was definitely a bummer to not see that fleshed out more. Even when we merged, we ended up having a lot of personal conversations and connecting. I remember one morning we had long conversations about her boyfriend Matt and my fiance Sammy, and just our lives. We just got along. And we kind of both knew we were not going to be able to work together for a while. We knew we were kind of on opposite sides of the field. But I saw her as someone that I got along with, and that I could see myself working with. And it was actually after the Noelle vote, when Gabler comes up to me that night, and he says, “I’ve got a plan to get it to the Final Three.” That plan including Cassidy. And so it was nice to know that that was also kind of part of his vision and that she was someone that he wanted to work with. Maybe he thought he could bet her in the end. But Cass was definitely a great friend out there, and remains one of my best friends now.You also mentioned Jesse as someone you joined up with late in the game. And we do see him bring you in on things like the Cody blindside. What was it like to form that relationship, especially knowing how capable he was to betray you?Yeah, I mean, I love Jesse, and I always wanted to work with him. I mean, you saw me get blindsided a couple times because I was counting on him to come through. (Laughs.) But for whatever reason, he just has this way of…it’s hard to vocalize. But he was so good at managing my feelings and understanding and empathizing and knowing how to approach that conversation. So I would end up still being like, “It’s okay, man.” I mean, it shows like that he’s the best player of our season. He’s a masterful social player, obviously a brilliant strategist, and I really loved bouncing ideas off of him. And I think he did a great job stroking my ego in a way and being like, “Man, I love working with you. You think about the game the same way I do.” And I think he was probably giving me more credit than I was due. But for me, having felt like I had just been running into a brick wall for three weeks, iIt was nice to work with someone who at least was telling me that they respected me and wanted my input and had me as kind of an equal partner in their strategy. And I know people probably think I should have gotten Cass and Gabler to do a 3-1-1-1 against him at the Cody vote. But I mean, you saw how close Cody was on that bat puzzle, right? I thought Cody was just a good athlete. But to see him get that close on the puzzle, that scared the crap out of me. So I love Jesse for what a brilliant social player and strategic player he is. A physical player he is not. (Laughs.) And so I felt much more comfortable in our chances to beat him at five and four. But then, of course he had the idol that we didn’t know about. But he’s tremendous. And I loved working with him.A big runner throughout the season was your temper. You initially talked about being a “lovable curmudgeon” at home and wanting to tone down your grumpiness. But your anger got the better of you sometimes, between your argument with James and reactions to being left out of the vote and not winning the final Immunity Challenge. Did that surprise you? Or did you use this as a way to reconcile your anger?That’s a good way to phrase it. I was not surprised necessarily. I mean, it’s a game for a million dollars. If anything, I’m more surprised more people are not furious and upset a lot more frequently on Survivor. I just remember seeing that supercut of Spencer reacting to things, and him just like flopping around all the time. When I saw that, I was like, “That’s how I would be.” It’s a game for a million dollars! If you don’t care about that, what the hell’s wrong with you? The situation with James, that’s not my proudest moment, unfortunately. He’s been very gracious, and we’ve talked a lot and we’re on very good terms now. But that, to me, was kind of the breaking point for me of just everything going wrong, feeling like I was getting kicked while I was down. And that was when it really got out of hand. But for me, towards the end game, I knew I needed kind of an Underwood effort to have a shot at winning the game. So to miss out on the advantage, to have my stack fall on the 14th bowl, those sorts of things, if you are in my position, I challenge you to not be a little upset.Interesting. So on the note of Underwood, if you had gotten those bowls stacked and won the Immunity Challenge, would you have put yourself into fire against Jesse?100%. I knew I had to do it. I knew that was my only path to victory. And I didn’t know if that would work. But I knew that would give me my best shot. And, as I said, that’s not the game I wanted to play. That’s not how I wish things had shaken out. But ultimately, I saw that as my best move. So I was crushed at losing that challenge. And those bowls still haunt me a little bit.To that point about things not going as intended, how did you handle all those times you got left out of the vote? Eventually does it just get to a point where you’re like, “Am I the problem?” (Laughs.)(Laughs.) I’m the problem, it’s me. I mean, I even started from the beginning, where they gave me the dodo music. I was trying to strategize on Day One at Baka, and everyone was just so just hesitant to do anything. And I was shocked. I was shocked that on the 43rd season of Survivor, people are just not doing anything. And it was very frustrating when I saw Jeff’s interview with you where he said people were playing with fear in our season. As harsh as that was–it’s a bummer to hear–but at the same time, it’s very valid. I wear glasses; I’m Asian. I knew if I came out being really aggressive strategically, I’d be the first one to go. But I didn’t think that just saying, “Hey, Elie, if I hear your name, I’ll tell you,” to me, that was not some sinful thing to do. So I was a little surprised that I got painted as being anxious or overly strategic or whatever. So from Day One, I was kind of a little thrown off my rhythm and just kind of surprised by the “social contract” of it all.Yeah, you said during the Final Five Tribal Council that you felt the gameplay in this season up to this point was “subtle.” Did that surprise you?Yeah, I mean, there was a different Tribal Council where I said it was boring! I think it was actually at the James vote where we had started arguing again, and I said, “A nine to two vote is not entertaining or wonderful gameplay.” I was very, very frustrated. And I wish it had been shown more how much I was trying at the Jaenine vote to work with Jeanine and try to get Karla and Cassidy together to try to turn the tables. And I get it, though. If you’re in the majority, you want to Pagong the other side. But to me, I was like, “Oh, my God, like, can we do something?!” So yeah, “subtle” is one word for it. But whatever you want to call it, it was extremely frustrating. It really just felt like I was just like, bashing my head against the wall. So how did you receive this experience overall? Because you go some moments that were part of your Survivor dream, mixed in with stuff out of your Survivor nightmares. You said on the after show you left a more “emotional, vulnerable, self-confident person.” How do you look back on things?I know the tone of this conversation has been a little bit more on the negative side, just talking about the frustrations of the game. But overall, I cannot have loved this experience more. I mean, I’m really grateful to have gotten to live the dream and make it onto the show. I was so close to being on David vs. Goliath. And to miss out on that, and then not get a call again for four years, to just be out there felt like a miracle. And then to dodge the bullet of going home first, oh my god. So to make it all the way to the Final Three, no matter how many votes I got, it’s been an honor just to live this experience. And the people I’ve met, and the fan reception has been even better than I ever could have dreamed. It’s felt very real. You know, I think people acknowledge the flaws in my game. I have never wanted to say I was dealt a bad hand because a lot of it was my own doing and the choices I made, But people appreciating that I did give it my best shot. And I think that came through, and it’s been amazing. And the Survivor community has been awesome. And I really look forward to being engaged in the future.I always said going out there that my floor was Jacob Darwin and my ceiling was Adam Kelin. And no matter what, I was going to have fun with it. So to get closer to the Adam outcome, I feel very lucky and fortunate. It’s validating in a way knowing and watching for years and thinking, “Oh, I just I think I could be a pretty decent player.” To get as far as I did, even as a zero-vote finalist, it ain’t a bad club to be in at all.Next, check out our interview with Survivor 43 second-place finisher Cassidy Clark.
