I can’t believe I got some strings pulled to talk with the Godfather of Survivor 43!I wouldn’t call myself “The Godfather.” But it’s always good to have a nickname on Survivor. Carl [from David vs. Goliath] is The Godfather Part 1 and I’m The Godfather Part 2.And some say Part 2 is better than Part 1!That is true. So hopefully there’s a Godfather Part 3 and we’ll keep this thing going, maybe play against some time.Well let’s start with the ending of The Godfather Part 2. At face value, you were saying, “Cool beans” to getting your torch snuffed and commending the others for the move. But if looks could kill, James, I don’t think anyone would have left that Tribal Council alive. What was going through your head emotionally once your blindside played out?It was a very tough moment for me. One, I thought strategically it didn’t make sense to me. Then the second thought process was, “Hey, man, I get why this is good. I was playing a pretty good game and I didn’t do a good job of managing my threat level.” So you’re mad at yourself, you’re mad at the situation. Tribal got pretty testy. And I felt like at that moment, I felt like I should have had better reads. I can put it on myself for not seeing some things that were happening. And I could have been more active.Well something that certainly didn’t help was the argument you had gotten into Owen at the water well and camp, that then flared up a bit again at Tribal Council. What was your perspective on everything coming to a head between the two of you?So it started the night before when I go, “Owen, you just want to talk?” Because at the end of the day, when you talk about the game, stuff happens. You voted for me at Tribal Council. And I’ve been cordial. I don’t understand why you’re mad at me when you’re not the target of the vote. You are immune. And I don’t get the anger. I get why you’re mad. But why are you mad at just me? The whole day everybody was lying to you. And you’re mad at me? I don’t know why. Then I get to the water well, and I say, “What do you want to do? My mind isn’t made up.” And then he gets upset. At that point, he’s proposing Noelle, he’s proposing Sami. Figure out a move! So that’s when I said, “You’ve got no reason to be mad at me. Sami’s there, Gabler’s there. They knew the votes. They could have told you all day.” So to direct your anger towards me. I’m like, “Why? I didn’t do anything to you?“Was his accusation accurate that you purposely kept him out of the Jeanine vote to keep him on the bottom of the tribe?No. So what happened was everybody was going to be unanimous. Ryan’s name was out there. Jeanine’s idol went out of the game allegedly. So another idol is back in the game. The best time to play idols is a unanimous vote on somebody. So the protection votes were hopefully Jeanine and Owen’s votes going on Ryan. That was the plan. It wasn’t just me. If you’re on the island with 10 or 11 other people, it can’t just be my words you take when you haven’t been playing with me the whole entire time. So why would my word be the word that is your vote in this game? It doesn’t make sense.In your final words, you said, “I wasn’t a big fish to fry.” Was there someone else you were implying with that statement?I feel like there are points in the game where [you ask], as far as your social capital in the game, is it more viable to keep you as an ally? Do people view this person as someone who can be at the end? Does that raise their social capital because they can be easily beatable in the end? So they may not be a good ally, but you think you can beat them at the end. So now your allyship becomes less important than their ability to win at the end. So it is really nice inflection point in the game where we’re trying to figure out allies and threats with getting to the end. And that’s why you have these things come up. It’s a loyalty thing versus having options and figuring out where that goes. That’s the beauty of the game.Last episode, it seemed like this new majority of seven was solid. Had the tribe split not happened the way it did, would they have stuck together? Did you want to go to the end with them?So I wanted to have as many options on the board as possible. That’s why I tried to bring Owen in on the Dwight vote. We think the split’s coming up. That gives us eight allies going in, which gives me a lot of protection. I’m trying to insulate myself knowing that I’ve been the target since the merge happened. So my long-term game hoped to have as many options as possible, and get as many people out of the game that are able to flip from side to side. I had to play a power game. This wasn’t the game I wanted to play. But I came in in the minority nine verse four. We were able to flip some people; Gabler was wanting to get Elie. So we slowly creeped up to get numbers in power. We worked really hard to get there. So we wanted to stay as flexible as possible going into that rock draw. And I feel like if everybody’s together, I still probably will be there. But it’s Survivor. You never know. I probably could have taken the idol from Jesse knowing that Cody had moved it.Yeah, let’s talk about the Knowledge is Power that you had. From our perspective, after you found it, you seemed to immediately tell a group of people, including Karla (who was in possession of her own idol). What was your strategy behind that?I got to the water well, and I’m like, “What is this in the water? What is this thing?” And then you’re with three other people that aren’t people working with you. Owen’s not working with me; Dwight’s not working with me. Sami’s kind of [back and forth]. I’m at the water well with people that aren’t really my allies. So I try to extend an olive branch, read the advantage, “this is under the shelter.” And then I take my time and think about it. And I say, “I’m playing Survivor. Let me go get this advantage.” (Laughs.) I was hoping it wasn’t Knowledge is Power. (Laughs.) But it was Knowledge is Power. And then you start playing around it, like, “How can I build trust with people?” So at this point, I’m like, “Let me go to Cody. Cody is one of my top allies. He has an idol. I don’t want this information going to Cody that I have a Knowledge of Power.” He finds out I’ve got this thing and I’m not coming for him. It is what it is; this is my word that I’m giving to you. And staying true to your word, that’s how I built some trust with Jesse and Cody at that Tribal.You spoke about going from the majority on Coco to the minority on the merge tribe. Let’s go back to the premerge. You seemed to be really socially connected, being one of the key figures behind both of the Coco votes. Talk about forming and keeping those relationships with everyone on the tribe.Literally Day One, me and Cass link up. We’re number ones. Everything gradually happened. Cass is my sister out there. Karla’s like my work wife. (Laughs.) And Lindsay was really up there too. So I had really good individual relationships with all three of the women on Coco. So I felt really comfortable in my position. We won enough that, looking at the dates, we thought we’re gonna merge soon. So we have two targets in Ryan and Geo. Worst case scenario, I feel like the girls won’t want to wipe out all the guys going to merge against all guys, since that would isolate them moving forward. So I felt pretty good in that scenario.Let’s talk about the decision to get rid of Lindsay. You talk about how close you were, so it seemed surprising you would vote her out so quickly. What led to that decision?When Cody came over to the beach, I shut down the conversation about what happened the journey because Noelle lied to Cody. So that really put something in Lindsay’s head, like, “Is James lying?” And then with Ryan and Geo not talking game with her, and them being on the outs, she felt like something’s really happening right now. I kind of understand it. And we said, “Right now we need to keep a solid [group] moving forward.” And this was a vote that made sense.As you mentioned, things flip on a dime when the tribes come together. What was your reaction when you go from someone in this great position as you mentioned to finding out Elie wants to bring together a Baka/Vesi coalition to take you out?Luckily for me, the first day, Gabler and I had a really good conversation. I have a background in pharmaceutical sales. I know he uses medical devices. So we’re able to have a really good talk and I gauge them as a straight shooter. So I knew that Elie wasn’t really his favorite person. And the feeling was kind of already out there. So Coco hae four votes. Jesse and Jeanine don’t have their votes. So for that Tribal we only needed two people to flip. So if there’s one crack like Gabler, then what’s the one other person so who’s really going to put their foot out there at this point?Gabler called you, Karla, and Cassidy a “three-headed hydra” this past episode. Were you really working with the two of them that closely? And did you intend to go to the end with them?See, my thought process was that the threats have to go to the end. You have to go to the end with people playing the game super hard. Because it’s too hard to manage who to sit next to in my head. You have to get to the end and be confident about your story. We’ve seen from people like Erika and Tommy, it’s about telling your story. All the moves and stuff is great. But can you articulate your story at the end? That’s the game I was trying to play, where I’m not handcuffed by my thought process and I can go to end with anybody.What was your reaction to finding out Karla was one of the votes against you last night?It definitely stings. I thought it was a really good shield in the game to move forward. I just thought it wasn’t that good of a game move. I look at it from a game point of view. Youu have four votes, just vote me out. Keep the advantage and move forward. It’s a lot to get me out. So you’re doing that much to get me out, I appreciate it; is great. But then from a game point of view, I’m like, “Save the Steal-a-Vote, put four on me, and say, ‘Bye bye, James.’“Jesse and Cody clearly were surprised to see you on the jury. And they spoke about possibly voting out Cassidy if you were gone to isolate Karla. Were you surprised that they ultimately didn’t?I mean, Jesse and Cody are in a position where they haven’t really been targeted right now in the game. They’re sitting very insulated, and it’s really good. They have idols! (Laughs.) They’re really insulated. The target was solely on me for all these Tribals. So now I think what the game now is opened up. I was a good shield in the game. Now we’re going to see how people navigate without having that default “let’s vote out James” that everybody was doing since merge. Even sending me on the journey was kind of like trying to attack me premerge from the Baka/Vesi alliance. And then they tried to protect Geo. So everything’s been at me for a while.You got to celebrate your birthday out on the island. And in a secret scene, you spoke about the mixed emotions around the occasion, considering how it happens near Mother’s Day and you lost your mother a couple of years back. What was it like to re-engage with those feelings in an environment that strips you so emotionally raw?I think it was really good. It was really therapeutic to really be away from everything, people asking questions. Because you’re getting a “Happy birthday” text, then you get a “Happy Mother’s Day” text, and everything is is hitting you. So being out on the island you’re able to sit back and see the purple sunset. Those days I was on Coco was a really good time. We didn’t go to Tribal. So I was able to really sit back and process my emotions and enjoy the experience. This is a once in a lifetime experience. Hopefully, I get to play again. But it was great. I had a blast. It just made me cherish the time that I do have here.Next, read our interview with Jeanine Zheng, who was voted out in Survivor 43 Episode 8.
